Demonstration
of the criminal plot of Jack Koobs de Hartog and Oliver Kuttner

velocetwo:

A3C ready to go

philt68:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
A3C ready to go
i love this car...i wish i'd had the money to buy one when they were (relatively) inexpensive!

Mang:

Stunning car wow! Love it.

ferraripete:

i love these cars. bill cotter has a race car like that. it is soooooooo kewel.

velocetwo:

Bamm!

willrace:

"must think of baseball.....must think of baseball.....must think of baseball.....must think of baseball......"

Ready to go.....where??

velocetwo:

For Sale

Ferrari 308 Vetro:

Great, like the Bizzarrini's

pascal2012:

This car is NOT a ISO A3C, why you try to promote fake car ?
Continuation car is a joke, car is a replica, copy, fake
Why you try to fool people ?

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari 308 Vetro
Great, like the Bizzarrini's
Not Bizzarrini- Iso, made with all Iso parts and approved by Piero Rivolta.

pascal2012:

All Ferrari 250 GTO/SWB/ replica , fake are made with all Ferrari parts.
Why you promote theses fakes cars ? Theses cars have new chassis made in 2012.

Jota 5084:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
This car is NOT a ISO A3C, why you try to promote fake car ?
Continuation car is a joke, car is a replica, copy, fake
Why you try to fool people ?

Dear Mr O.,

Read the ad carefully one more time.
"One of only four continuation cars built to exacting standards by former Iso employees in Italy. Virtually identical to originals built in 1964"
Joke? Fake? Fool people?

pascal2012:

Continuation cars DONT EXSIST !! only in your imagination ! and my name is Pascal
I understand that the american community for Iso/Bizz is behind this scam, but the truth will be soon everywhere as this car is a NEW CAR, built in Italy, NEW Chassis made in 2012 and if you use papers from 1964 dont means that the car is from 1964. A investigation from customs are on his way

pascal2012:

People involve in this are already involve in fake P538 and FAKE importation, they lie to the US customs about everythings
The proofs are already on internet, do your home work please
Google Gerd Eckstein P538 and you will see everythings already

pascal2012:

Gerd Eckstein - Profil de l'importateure | Import Genius
?Marcel Keulers, Marcel Keulers trading partners, main products, latest transactions?- Greatexportimport.com

Now, if you read the official book Bizzarrini, everythings was explain a few years ago.
Ghost cars have been imported by lying at the US customs, they lie about year construction, provenance of the cars, value and denomination. A Car built in 1998 cannot be named Bizzarrini and cannot be imported as a car built as 1965.

Now, if you think that this behaviour is good for America, it s your opinion but if a kid is hurt by theses cars who are not allow to be on the road, you will face the reality

velocetwo:

Pascal Almost any car built in numbers under 200 can be registered in the United States. In California it's called a special makes vehicle. As an example there are thousands of fiberglass Cobras registered in CA. Further proof is all of the custom hot rods that are built and driven in the USA. Even new cars can be brought over, like Morgans. Some companies can avoid issued by not having engines in them when they ship, so there are many ways to import cars in the USA.

Even modern cars that were never imported into the USA can be imported as long as the owner does not sell them in the USA.

It seems to me these huge concerns you have are problems that the countries of Europe have.

pascal2012:

If you read the customs reports, theses cars was imported with falses chassis number and denomination.

pascal2012:

Bizzarrini P538 [Archive] - The Varedo Group
Activity Stream - The Varedo Group › ... › Showroom - Traduire cette page

Gerd Eckstein. 10-03-2012, 06:36 PM. LeMans replica. It is not a "replica". Around 2007/08 Giotto Bizzarrini himself built about 5 of the P538 LeMans versions.Gerd Eckstein have bought recreations/replica P538, called P538 LeMans,he claim that the car is not a replica because the name is P538 LeMans( as you see everythings in done to confuse honest people ) built after 2005, but now on the import papers, the car denomination, year construction have been change.
Then Gerd bought a replica and import it as the real things, what is the name for this ?
SCAM

procure95:

Today's email
Subject: SCAM Iso Bizzarrini by the ISOBIZZ Club USA

BE CAREFULL as

a association of crooks have imported in USA fake Bizzarrini P538, cars who have been built between 1998 and 2008. Theses cars have been imported to USA with fake invoice, fake chassis number, fake valuation and all this scam is to fool a collector. They try now to do the same things with new car built in 2012 like ISO and claim that cars built in 1965.
The SCAM is organised by Gerd Eckstein, Mike Clarke, Jack de Hartog and others crooks
Iso A3C
Gerd Eckstein - Profil de l'importateure | Import Genius
?Marcel Keulers, Marcel Keulers trading partners, main products, latest transactions?- Greatexportimport.com
Please report to the police if you have been the victim of theses people.

El Wayne:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
This car is NOT a ISO A3C, why you try to promote fake car ?
Continuation car is a joke, car is a replica, copy, fake
Why you try to fool people ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Why you promote theses fakes cars ? Theses cars have new chassis made in 2012.

Pascal, I think your tone is argumentative and inflammatory. Be careful, as your behavior could be construed as flaming/trolling, and rules violations can and often do result in a ban.
Besides, I don't see what you're getting so riled up about. The website where these cars are offered for sale clearly describes them as new cars built on new chassis:

Quote:
Only a total of 5 cars will be made by our company Bottegone in Clusone, BG...
The body, an all-aluminum masterpiece, and the entire chassis are hand crafted exactly the same way as the ones built during 1963/64.

You ask why they promote "these fakes," well I would guess the answer is that there's a market for them. Not much different than promoting breast implants, now is it?

So calm down and stop trying to incite a flame war. We get that you don't like fake/reproduction/replica/recreation/continuation cars. Some people do; so to each his own.

AlfettaGTV:

He Who Cannot Be Named is back again...

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Wayne
Pascal, I think your tone is argumentative and inflammatory. Be careful, as your behavior could be construed as flaming/trolling, and rules violations can and often do result in a ban.
Besides, I don't see what you're getting so riled up about. The website where these cars are offered for sale clearly describes them as new cars built on new chassis:
The problem is that, we call them and they said that they give papers from 1965 and that theses cars can be imported as 1965 cars even if they are not. If you look the importation papers of the P538, they have imported cars with FAKE chassis number and fake denomination and fake years of construction. I was thinking that it will good for the community to known about theses wrong actions.
If somebody was doing the same thing with Ferrari 250 SWB and putting fake chassis to import them, everybody will be happy to heard it

pascal2012:

Photo of P538 Lemans built 2008 who became original P538 and imported in USA as a real car

DenisC:

The DMV is no help, a buddy of mine bought a RMR GT40 (kit) from Michigan (IIRC) and the registrations say 66 GT40. Tried to change them when he registered and insured it here and was told that it could be changed but complicated. (Not worth the effort and he thinks it's funny)

El Wayne:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenisC
The DMV is no help, a buddy of mine bought a RMR GT40 (kit) from Michigan (IIRC) and the registrations say 66 GT40. Tried to change them when he registered and insured it here and was told that it could be changed but complicated. (Not worth the effort and he thinks it's funny)
The DMV does not care about these things. When I bought my '63 250 GTE, it was registered as a '65 (1963 was the last year of production). I jumped through a ton of hoops to get it changed, including obtaining letters from both Ferrari SpA. and Dick Merritt at the Department of Transportation (a well-known Ferrari afficianado, by the way). In the end, I gave up and left it as is. I wonder if the current owner has had better luck with the Colorado DMV?

pascal2012:

2007, the start of the saga
when you read theses posts, it just show that people was right about what was going to happen in the futur as IT HAPPEN, theses fakes cars are now in America imported as real Bizzarrini cars !
the truth is there for everybody now to understand completely this saga . What a shame

minibizzarrini:

I am usually one to hold my tongue and let things play out how they will but after readying some of the comments on this thread I felt that I had to say a few things.
Mr. Pascal2012,

Based off your tone, personal attacks, the stories you post and tendency to misinterpret information, you sound scarily similar to a certain individual, we shall call him Mr. O, who was previously banned from multiple exotic car forums for flaming/trolling. I am not saying that you are this individual, just making an observation.

Along the same lines, many of these so called “posts that the community needs to see” are not based on actually facts and seemed to more closely resemble the angry and jealous tantrums of a child. Keep in mind that you are on Ferrari chat; this is a place for gentlemen and ladies to discuss their passion for automobiles. The gentleman thing to do would be to actually read into the description given with the A3C continuation car and the forum references you posted. Both actually clarify all your comments and “concerns.” Yes, I understand that English can be a difficult 2nd language to learn, so I urge you to reread until you have your facts strait. And if things become confusing, there are plenty of Iso and Bizzarrini club members all over the world who would be more than happy to explain if asked in a professional manner.

....Flame shield Oh...haha

Now to bring things back to the actual topic of this thread, the Iso A3C! The P538 has no place here (also very misinformed and twisted information).

I grew up with the sound of a Grifo big block lulling me to sleep, so it is save to say that Iso has and always will be a big part of my life. Over the past few years I have had the pleasure of meeting cars and owners from all over the world. Including Piero Rivolta, Giotto Bizzarrini, former Iso employees and the craftsmen behind this beautiful Iso A3C continuation car. And yes it is in fact a continuation car. Similarly to the Shelby continuation cars sanctioned by Carroll himself and somewhat like the Austin Martin DB4 GT Zagato built later by the factory; this car is built with original parts, authorized by Rivolta himself, and built to such stringent originality standards that it qualifies for international historic racing. Of course it wasn’t built in the 1960s and no one ever said it was. What they did say was that this is a rebirth of a legend.

I have no vested interest in profiting off this but I do have a vested interest in people’s passion for Iso. I doubt that you will find bigger Iso and Bizzarrini fanatics then the people involved in this project. It pains me to see their good names being tarnished by individuals who have never fact checked with actual club members or historical references. This is not a place for accusations but a place for spreading the fascination and love of these cars to current and future generations.

pascal2012:

I only relate the facts and with one post in 6 years from you, I don t share your opinion as you are surely a friend of Gerd Copperfield !....lol

The facts are the facts and go to read yourself the declaration to the customs of your friend.

pascal2012:

Your comments #this car is built with original parts, authorized by Rivolta himself, and built to such stringent originality standards that it qualifies for international historic racing.#

How do you known if you are not closely involve of this ?

How do you known that the replica was authorized by Rivolta ?

How do you known that they use original parts ? If you believe that ISO A3C NOS parts are still available, we are not leaving in the same planet or you are a dreamer !

How do you known that the replica is built to such stringent originality standards, DID you see the car ? Are you a expert in ISO A3C ? Do you have one original yourself ?

How do you qualify yourself ? A fan, a expert, a owner ? and if you own somethings, explain to us

Please put the light on your real motives if you have some.

You just express your opinion and it look like that you have choose to take the defense of the replica organisation.

Me, I relate the facts found on internet with real declaration by importators who lie on their declaration.

Replica ISO A3C have new chassis built, they are not a ISO A3C, they are just a replica.

A Iso is a car built by the factory in the 60, not in 2013.

A CAV GT40 is not a GT40, is not a continuation GT40, it s replica, same with ISO

AlfettaGTV:

Please, don't feed the belgian troll.

Skidkid:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfettaGTV
Please, don't feed the belgian troll.
Ah, but it is so fun. When you hold their feet and move your hands back and forth their hair flies out in all directions.
If life isn't fun ----- You are doing it wrong!

stuartlarman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfettaGTV
Please, don't feed the belgian troll.
A friend of mine built a Factory Five cobra replica in California a few years ago and was able to title it as a 1965 Cobra. He said that every year the California DMV handed out a small number of 'old' dates for their titles. THis is unethical and just plays into the hands of scam artists. In a related note I remember about 15 years ago Carroll Shelby 'found' 20 or 30 NOS 1966 427 cobra chassis that he intended to use to make continuation cars. Yeah , right; how does one lose 20 chassis? Does anyone have an update on that scam?

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfettaGTV
Please, don't feed the belgian troll.
I had a conversation with Piero Rivolta about this subject and he told me personally that he authorized the build.

Yes Roberto Negri does have NOS Iso parts, many of them.

As far a s I know they have original blueprints and documentation that was left over from the Iso factory. Bizzarrini threw a lot of his stuff away, Roberto kept a lot of it.

Yes the chassis's are new, but they are fabricated to the original specifications. This has been said before.

Skidkid:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartlarman
A friend of mine built a Factory Five cobra replica in California a few years ago and was able to title it as a 1965 Cobra. He said that every year the California DMV handed out a small number of 'old' dates for their titles. THis is unethical and just plays into the hands of scam artists. In a related note I remember about 15 years ago Carroll Shelby 'found' 20 or 30 NOS 1966 427 cobra chassis that he intended to use to make continuation cars. Yeah , right; how does one lose 20 chassis? Does anyone have an update on that scam?
You are talking about SB100 titles. Their are a lot of rules around this process but you can end up with a car that isn't subject to smog. The title will say something like 65 cobra but it will have a year of build/issue as well. This process doesn't create a way to wash a title.

If life isn't fun ----- You are doing it wrong!

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
I had a conversation with Piero Rivolta about this subject and he told me personally that he authorized the build.

Yes Roberto Negri does have NOS Iso parts, many of them.

As far a s I know they have original blueprints and documentation that was left over from the Iso factory. Bizzarrini threw a lot of his stuff away, Roberto kept a lot of it.

Yes the chassis's are new, but they are fabricated to the original specifications. This has been said before.
Have you been to the shop of Negri yourself ?

I dont believe one word from people who make fakes documents to import a fake car in USA.

Me and my friends have been there many times in the last 20 years and HE MADE new parts, nothing NOS.

When a car is new, it cannot be imported as 1965 Iso unless you are prepare to lie to the customs

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Have you been to the shop of Negri yourself ?

I dont believe one word from people who make fakes documents to import a fake car in USA.

Me and my friends have been there many times in the last 20 years and HE MADE new parts, nothing NOS.

When a car is new, it cannot be imported as 1965 Iso unless you are prepare to lie to the customs
Yes I would say 80 % was NOS there were some small items like Carello or Altissimo lenses but otherwise most NOS. I have been purchasing parts from him over 15 years.

Why would you go there, to his shop if you didn't think the parts were NOS?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Yes I would say 80 % was NOS there were some small items like Carello or Altissimo lenses but otherwise most NOS. I have been purchasing parts from him over 15 years.

Why would you go there, to his shop if you didn't think the parts were NOS?
Carello lights are one thing, NOS parts to built Replica ISO A3C are a joke !

Negri built from SCATCH replica and to try to sell them for 400 000 $, he made up a story with his americans friends .

You dont think that someone should be really stupid to buy a replica for 400 000 $ , buy a real Bizzarrini or a real Iso Grifo

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Carello lights are one thing, NOS parts to built Replica ISO A3C are a joke !

Negri built from SCATCH replica and to try to sell them for 400 000 $, he made up a story with his americans friends .

You dont think that someone should be really stupid to buy a replica for 400 000 $ , buy a real Bizzarrini or a real Iso Grifo
Why would you go there, to his shop if you didn't think the parts were NOS?

When Rivolta and Bizzarrini built these cars they used Rivolta parts, many of them that were used on the Rivolta GT , Negri has a shop full of Rivolta GT parts soooo.... the cars are built using Iso GT parts pretty simple.

That said these cars may not be your cupof tea, but for the Iso enthusiast that doesn't have a million plus dollars these cars are very accurate representations and are built to very high standards. I applaud Negri for his fine craftsmanship and attention to detail.

pascal2012:

You cannot import theses cars in USA as they are 2012 construction cars or you lie to the customs. Better to buy a real Iso Grifo

pascal2012:

Nobody perfect

pascal2012:

As you see, in 1993 Griffon magazine claim that BO222 was send to Drogo which of course , it s not possible if you believe that BO222 is a fiberglass car later renumbered IA30222.

Research requires a lot of effort and receives little reward

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

You cannot import theses cars in USA as they are 2012 construction cars or you lie to the customs. Better to buy a real Iso Grifo
How do you know the US laws?

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Gerd Eckstein - Profil de l'importateure | Import Genius
?Marcel Keulers, Marcel Keulers trading partners, main products, latest transactions?- Greatexportimport.com

Now, if you read the official book Bizzarrini, everythings was explain a few years ago.
Ghost cars have been imported by lying at the US customs, they lie about year construction, provenance of the cars, value and denomination. A Car built in 1998 cannot be named Bizzarrini and cannot be imported as a car built as 1965.

Now, if you think that this behaviour is good for America, it s your opinion but if a kid is hurt by theses cars who are not allow to be on the road, you will face the reality
Who lied?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
How do you know the US laws?
www.cosdel.com

pascal2012:

Watch Madness Club ISO USA.

They invent P538 with false denominations, for what purpose if is not fabricating false cars and give them some legitimacy.

soon, there will be P538 Subaru, Toyota, Lancia, Alfa Romeo

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pascal2012:

ISO A3C Vin 201
Dead

pascal2012:

202
New Body

pascal2012:

206

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Watch Madness Club ISO USA.

They invent P538 with false denominations, for what purpose if is not fabricating false cars and give them some legitimacy.

soon, there will be P538 Subaru, Toyota, Lancia, Alfa Romeo

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Pascal

You got it backwards. It is known that there has been and will be Iso and Bizzarrini reproductions, so rather than ignoring them or hiding them in the dark the Iso Bizzarrini community prefers to identify them. These lists include cars that were made by Bizzarrini after he shut down, Diomante and others to name a few. IMO this is what most clubs should do. Even in Fchat there is a thread that promotes this idea about reproduction F cars.

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Pascal

You got it backwards. It is known that there has been and will be Iso and Bizzarrini reproductions, so rather than ignoring them or hiding them in the dark the Iso Bizzarrini community prefers to identify them. These lists include cars that were made by Bizzarrini after he shut down, Diomante and others to name a few. IMO this is what most clubs should do. Even in Fchat there is a thread that promotes this idea about reproduction F cars.
I AGREE but thses cars are not Bizzarrini then...

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
I AGREE but thses cars are not Bizzarrini then...
Since Giotto Bizzarrini went out of business over 40 years ago and the fact that he (Giotto) doesn't own the name "Bizzarrini" then I would say no they are not Bizzarrini's. In the recent past I think Giotto has called them "Grifo's" and other names.

I don't know what you would call the cars Giotto made after he went BK, but he did make a number of them. There are also a whole lot of cars out there that look like his cars but were built by other people.

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Since Giotto Bizzarrini went out of business over 40 years ago and the fact that he (Giotto) doesn't own the name "Bizzarrini" then I would say no they are not Bizzarrini's. In the recent past I think Giotto has called them "Grifo's" and other names.

I don't know what you would call the cars Giotto made after he went BK, but he did make a number of them. There are also a whole lot of cars out there that look like his cars but were built by other people.
I agree, you look like honest and look like that you understand the sitution

pascal2012:

Fake car 100 % New using Chassis Number 214. Big Scam

velocetwo:

Real cars

AlfettaGTV:

Fake cars, fake info...
Quote:
From 1965 Iso Rivolta Breadvan - Silverstone Auctions

This car is based on the chassis and running gear of an Iso Rivolta. It is believed to have been built in 1965 using an alloy body reputedly designed and made by Drogo in the classic Breadvan shape. Fitted with a 450bhp V8 Chevrolet engine and set up for competition use, this Iso would be extremely competitive in historic racing.

Over the years the car has been predominantly used in Italian hill climb events and in small regional races. When discovered by the last owner, the engine was rebuilt and the car restored. It was then used on the Tour Britannia and other rallies in Europe. Recently brought back from Pisa, the vendor reports that: "the car is mechanically in excellent condition, starts easily, is tremendously powerful and sounds amazing!" Supplied with EU registration papers, this all aluminium bodied Iso is a fine testament to the Ferrari Breadvan and could even house a Ferrari engine and running gear, if a suitable 250 donor could be found.
Quote:
From http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/...7-iso-rivolta/

1967 Iso Rivolta Breadvan GTO Competition For Sale

Built in the early 1970s in Italy, the car has been constructed to the highest quality and attention to detail including drilled pedals, lightened sills and an overall finish that is second to none. The car remained mostly in and around Livorno on the Italian Mediterranean coast, underwent a restoration in Pisa, Italy and is described by the current vendor as being in concours condition.

pascal2012:

BO207

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfettaGTV
Fake cars, fake info...
Alvaro, I believe that you are involve with the replica organisation who try to fool the people concerning Fake Iso A3C, then your comments about theses 2 Iso cars are really funny.

Because, you never see theses 2 cars and how can you make a honest comment from Spain without seeing the car and the documentation for it ? Then if you see them, share your experience with us but stealing a photo from internet is not good enough to have a honest opinion. Your reputation from Spain is not very good as a friend of mine known you very well.

His name is also Alvaro and he is a big dealer from Madrid

AlfettaGTV:

...

pascal2012:

BO215

pascal2012:

BO201

pascal2012:

Le Mans 64

velocetwo:

A3C

pascal2012:

BO206

pascal2012:

BO222

From some archives from Griffon magazine USA, BO222 was send to Drogo for alloy body,

today IA3 0222 claim the history of BO222 without any proofs of it ...

pascal2012:

Vallelunga 1966. Susy Raganelli, G.C.Naddeo, O.Pettinelli, J.de Rham, R.Olsted detto "Meo Patacca"con la sua Iso Grifo #BO222 e i Tecno k 250 della scuderia Maremmana — Comments made by the mecanic of Bizzarrini, car look like a Alloy, not fiberglass

pascal2012:

This is clear and should be this way but then cannot be imported in USA...

Skidkid:

I would take one of those.
If life isn't fun ----- You are doing it wrong!

pascal2012:

BO202

pascal2012:

BO202

pascal2012:

BO207, see the GTO style
Year 1975

GIOTTO:

Zeltweg 1965.

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
Zeltweg 1965.
Great never seen photo

GIOTTO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
Zeltweg 1965.
©>Technisches Museum Wien

pascal2012:

BO201

pascal2012:

Zeltweg 1965

alaind:

Hello,
I'm new to the forum and I found this car in northern Italy and the owner tells me that this is a race car Iso.

Could you confirm and tell me more about the history of this car?

GIOTTO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
Hello,
I'm new to the forum and I found this car in northern Italy and the owner tells me that this is a race car Iso.

Could you confirm and tell me more about the history of this car?

Is there a VIN somewhere on the frame? Where is the engine and the missing parts? Could you post more photos please?

pascal2012:

When this photo was taken ? Where ?
It s Fiberglass Iso race car like the car that was discovered a fews years ago

pascal2012:

Here 7 liters found in Italy 10 years ago by olczyk and on the photo is the first mecanic of giotto

velocetwo:

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Here 7 liters found in Italy 10 years ago by olczyk and on the photo is the first mecanic of giotto
Pascal,
What is the mechanics name?

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Here 7 liters found in Italy 10 years ago by olczyk and on the photo is the first mecanic of giotto
Pascal - do you know olczyk?

DenisC:

I have a feeling this is a similar story so I will tell it. A few years ago I found the son of the Canadian DeTomaso importer, this gentleman was also the owner/founder of a snowmobile company. Unfortunately that venture went belly up after less than 2 years. This happened in the early 70s where many sled companies were born and disappeared. After the whole operation failed a forensic accounting investigation was done and it was determined that some employees had been bringing home parts and building sleds and selling them, more sleds were registered by the MOT than the company had sold in their tenure and money was so good no one bothered to follow thru or conciliate received parts shipment. ;p

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Pascal,
What is the mechanics name?
Stefano Volpi

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Pascal - do you know olczyk?
everybody known him, you too no ?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Be careful, be very careful.
Careful of what ? lol...very interesting post

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Careful of what ? lol...very interesting post
Pascal,
You have written so much about potential illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world. I think it is wise for everyone to be very cautious and to investigate carefully before any purchase.
Don't you agree?

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
everybody known him, you too no ?
No, I do not know him, should I?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Pascal,
You have written so much about potential illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world. I think it is wise for everyone to be very cautious and to investigate carefully before any purchase.
Don't you agree?
I agree, you are right but as I see from the photos, the condition is original unrestored, and IF the photos are from 2013, it s a great discovery.

Concerning illicit activity in Bizz/Iso car world, it concern importation of wrong cars in USA, cars imported by unscrupulous people who are not afraid to lie to the customs !

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Stefano Volpi
You don t known Volpi ?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
No, I do not know him, should I?
Difficult to believe you as you own a website talking about Bizzarrini, but if you never meet him, you should

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
Is there a VIN somewhere on the frame? Where is the engine and the missing parts? Could you post more photos please?
the car is complete but in boxes

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
When this photo was taken ? Where ?

It s Fiberglass Iso race car like the car that was discovered a fews years ago
In north Italy

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Be careful, be very careful.
Oh thank you;could you tell me more about what?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
the car is complete but in boxes
please more photos and give chassis number, it will help

GIOTTO:

#0226 ?

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
Oh thank you;could you tell me more about what?
Pascal has written so much about potential illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world. I think it is wise for everyone to be very cautious and to investigate each car carefully.

velocetwo:

Here is a better picture of Volpi's terrier

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Here is a better picture of Volpi's terrier
This P538 Lavost is a proper P538, built with special chassis by Buizzarrini in the "70" , radiators in the back sides.

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
I agree, you are right but as I see from the photos, the condition is original unrestored, and IF the photos are from 2013, it s a great discovery.

Concerning illicit activity in Bizz/Iso car world, it concern importation of wrong cars in USA, cars imported by unscrupulous people who are not afraid to lie to the customs !
Pascal,
It seems to me that any illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world could also lead to illicit cars that stay in Europe and are being sold by unscrupulous people who do not need to be concerned about US customs because they sell the cars in Europe.

Is this not a possibility? This seems like a much bigger potential problem because there are so many Bizziarrini/Iso cars in Europe and so very few are shipped to the US.

What do you think about illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world in Europe?

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
This P538 Lavost is a proper P538, built with special chassis by Buizzarrini in the "70" , radiators in the back sides.
It had to be made in the sixties?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22
Pascal,
It seems to me that any illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world could also lead to illicit cars that stay in Europe and are being sold by unscrupulous people who do not need to be concerned about US customs because they sell the cars in Europe.

Is this not a possibility? This seems like a much bigger potential problem because there are so many Bizziarrini/Iso cars in Europe and so very few are shipped to the US.

What do you think about illicit activity in the Bizzarrini/Iso car world in Europe?
I don t known any FAKE P538 built in 2007 by Giotto ( badly welded chassis + some polyester) and claim to be built in 1965 like Ekstein did ( proofs have been show that he did it ), sold in Europe as all the P538 was sold to USA because order by Gerd , concerning the replica ISO A3C, they are not advertise in Europe even if they are built in Italy , which explain that the illicit business target the USA. Why theses FAKE REPLICA are not show in Padova show ? to try to find European customers ? Why, they only target USA to sell them.

The answer is obvious

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
#0226 ?
Why do you think as the VIM are BO 226?

GIOTTO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
Why do you think as the VIM are BO 226?
It's just a guess... But if you have discovered the car, maybe know the VIN ?

velocetwo:

2010 Villa D Este, 2012 LeMans my geography's not that good, but aren't those places in Europe ? or is it Nebraska?

eckos1:

2010 Villa D'Este
2010 ISO Meeting in The Rivolta Park in Bresso/Milano

with Mr. Piero Rivolta is seen in the center.
2011 Monza with Racedriver Merzario,
2012 LeMans

pascal2012:

I ve said that "they are not advertise in Europe" the only ads thet everybody have seen is in USA.

eckos1 = Gerd Ekstein himself
Now that you are here, explain to us please the importation that you did with false chassis number, false year of construction etc

The photo is the car that you import as Bizzarrini P538 built 1965 when the car was built in 1999 by Luigi Moreschi

pascal2012:

The car had a number 006 as the sixt car built by Gilberto Pannizza in 1999, and it is very well known that you have declare on the Iso forum that you had restored the car with "original parts from the 65".

I known already your answer, you are going to tell us that the car that you import is not this one...then my next question is, please tell us where is the replica P538 LM ( Luigi Moreschi) .

I known the answer already, you are going to tell us that thew car is still in Italy or that you sold it..

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
It's just a guess... But if you have discovered the car, maybe know the VIN ?
I am very impressed indeed this is the right number

GIOTTO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
I am very impressed indeed this is the right number
So the same car in posts #73 & #80. Can we see more photos please?

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
I am very impressed indeed this is the right number
I mean VIN: BO 226

velocetwo:

On post 109 that looks like Andrea Zagato with his wife Marella Rivolta Zagato.

pascal2012:

BO226 in Reims 1965

pascal2012:

BO226 in Zeltweg 1965

pascal2012:

See sides exhaust !

GIOTTO:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
BO226 in Zeltweg 1965
I think #0226 was car n°1 at Zeltweg and car n°8 was #0222.

pascal2012:

All infos and documents show BO226 is number 8

GIOTTO:

Unfortunatelly, I don't have access to the different documents for these cars and my comments are only based on observations and comparison of the different photos.

If I compare car n°3 (#0222) at Le Mans with car n°8 at Zeltweg, I see not much differences. But if I compare the Le Mans car n°3 with car n°1 at Zeltweg, I see some differences. Bizzarrini badge not at the same place, side turn indicators not at the same place, etc. So, maybe it's possible that there is a confusion. We found many mistakes between different Ferrari's in the last years. Again, it's only a guess.

pascal2012:

Zeltweg 65

pascal2012:

Zeltweb 1965

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

I ve said that "they are not advertise in Europe" the only ads thet everybody have seen is in USA.
eckos1 = Gerd Ekstein himself

Now that you are here, explain to us please the importation that you did with false chassis number, false year of construction etc

The photo is the car that you import as Bizzarrini P538 built 1965 when the car was built in 1999 by Luigi Moreschi
Yahoo! Groups

Here everybody can see that Gerd declare that he bought the Fake P538 from Panizza, and it s the car that we see on the photos, car built in 1999 and declared to be built in 1965 to be imported in USA

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Yahoo! Groups

Here everybody can see that Gerd declare that he bought the Fake P538 from Panizza, and it s the car that we see on the photos, car built in 1999 and declared to be built in 1965 to be imported in USA
Statement from GERD
> The car I own is, to the best of my knowledge, P 578-006. The car
has
> a Bizzarrini designed front end and a partly Pantera rear end with
a
> Pantera ZF 5-speed.
> In 2001 the engine was changed to the 8.2 L CanAm one. I have the
> invoices. The former owner was Mr. Panizza who sold the car to
> me in 2006. This is the information I received first hand.
>
> (Jack

DenisC:

yaaahn!

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Statement from GERD
> The car I own is, to the best of my knowledge, P 578-006. The car
has
> a Bizzarrini designed front end and a partly Pantera rear end with
a
> Pantera ZF 5-speed.
> In 2001 the engine was changed to the 8.2 L CanAm one. I have the
> invoices. The former owner was Mr. Panizza who sold the car to
> me in 2006. This is the information I received first hand.
>
> (Jack

When I visited mr. Panizza September 26th last year he told
me that he built this car. Again proof of the fact that statements by
the owners of the cars are not always correct or complet
Yahoo! Groups

A fews years ago, Gerd declare on the Varedo Group on Yahoo that He bought a P578-006 , he declare that it was own by Panizza with a Can Am 8.2 Liter ( the car from Coys Auction and correctly describe as a interpretation, a fake, a replica built by Luigi Moreschi) and the name of the car was changed from P578 -006 to P538-006.
End of the demonstration
Pascal
Why so worked up? I know Gerd and to my knowledge he has never claimed the car was real.
So lets look at some facts about P538's. To my knowledge only 4-5 were built by Bizzarrini, this was while Bizzarrini was incorporated. one was crashed so that leaves 3-4. Only one P538 ever had a serial number that was the Duke's car and we know which one that is because of the hard top. So aside from the one in the San Diego museum, the two at Blackhawk, the rest are non original cars. The Manta is a whole other story
It's that simple.
Nice pictures BTW

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Pascal
Why so worked up? I know Gerd and to my knowledge he has never claimed the car was real.
So lets look at some facts about P538's. To my knowledge only 4-5 were built by Bizzarrini, this was while Bizzarrini was incorporated. one was crashed so that leaves 3-4. Only one P538 ever had a serial number that was the Duke's car and we know which one that is because of the hard top. So aside from the one in the San Diego museum, the two at Blackhawk, the rest are non original cars. The Manta is a whole other story
It's that simple.
Nice pictures BTW
Well, you known Gerd and to your knowledge, he never claimed that the car was real ???
Then why you import a car and falsifies the name of the car, the year of construction and so on ?????
We will all happy to understand why !
I m very sorry but for the last fews years, Gerd had post on differents forums , differents story and claim that have bought a real car
He claim to have bought P578 from Panizza (read yahoo)which is a lie as the CAN AM car is not a Bizzarrini, and now try to transfert all the bad story on the back of Panizza.
He import a CAN AM car built up as a Bizzarrini 1965 in USA, if you think that , it s the correct behaviour, I dont
I was part of Varedo group and he kick me out when I start to discuss about his replica which confirm if needed that he try to impose in USA a complet different story than the reality.
Internet forum is a place to learn and share, not a place for fake propaganda

pascal2012:

Pascal,
The bottom line is that there are only 3-4 real P538's ALL the rest are reproductions, we all know that, so it's a null point.
Whats interesting is the Pictures you have. They are fantastic, those last two are spectacular. The action, the car and Giotto in the mix. i think these are some of my favorite shots of racing A3C's ever.

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012

Well, you known Gerd and to your knowledge, he never claimed that the car was real ???
Then why you import a car and falsifies the name of the car, the year of construction and so on ?????
We will all happy to understand why !
I m very sorry but for the last fews years, Gerd had post on differents forums , differents story and claim that have bought a real car
He claim to have bought P578 from Panizza (read yahoo)which is a lie as the CAN AM car is not a Bizzarrini, and now try to transfert all the bad story on the back of Panizza.
He import a CAN AM car built up as a Bizzarrini 1965 in USA, if you think that , it s the correct behaviour, I dont
I was part of Varedo group and he kick me out when I start to discuss about his replica which confirm if needed that he try to impose in USA a complet different story than the reality.
Internet forum is a place to learn and share, not a place for fake propaganda
Pascal - you said "I was part of Varedo group and he kick me out..."
I do not remember a Pascal in the Varedo group "in the last few years". And Gerd does not control the Varedo group.
And how do you know so much about Bizzarrini cars? Are you a collector, a dealer, a restorer or a historian?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG22

Pascal - you said "I was part of Varedo group and he kick me out..."
I do not remember a Pascal in the Varedo group "in the last few years". And Gerd does not control the Varedo group.
And how do you know so much about Bizzarrini cars? Are you a collector, a dealer, a restorer or a historian?
I m a collector and as soon as I have posted a photo of the Can AM LM P578/P538 replica , I was banned and it was last month then...
Funny that the entry team for Zeltweg was Allan Man with a Shelby replaced by the Iso

velocetwo:

Ahh was this was the race where Bob Bondurant's rear brakes started grinding through the chassis?

pascal2012:

Zelweg 65

pascal2012:

Zeltweg

velocetwo:

Lemans

pascal2012:

Nurburgring 65

pascal2012:

le mans

pascal2012:

1964 lemans

pascal2012:

BO213 in Italy last year

pascal2012:

BO213

pascal2012:

BO213

DenisC:

So Philippe when are you going to tell everyone how much you are going to sell this long lost original ISO car with a proven and documented racing pedigree????????
It has to be worth millions no!

pascal2012:

BO213 in Italy

velocetwo:

Italian luxury !

IsoBizzaGrifo:

1964 Iso Grifo A3/C 5300 GT Iso A3C Drogo Rivet Alloy Body for sale: Anamera

pascal2012:

ISO Daytona

Jota 5084:

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsoBizzaGriffo
1964 Iso Grifo A3/C 5300 GT Iso A3C Drogo Rivet Alloy Body for sale: Anamera
Claus from Sweden again

pascal2012:

Now with new body, new interior, NEW EVERYTHINGS
May be built with NOS parts by.....the italian/usa mafioso connection

pascal2012:

Bizz in the front 1966

pascal2012:

Nieri Brothers, Ghigo and Beppe, the Kart pioneers
It was test driver for Bizzarini

pascal2012:

Mugello 1966. Giuseppe Nieri

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
ISO Daytona
Correction, this is a NEMBO on a Iso chassis, the Iso factory never had any hand in this car with the exception of selling them a chassis. What is odd on these cars is that they use a Rivolta GT chassis, yet it is cut and shortened to the same length as a Grifo? Why didn't they just use a Grifo chassis. A mystery.

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Mugello 1966. Giuseppe Nieri
Pascal, what are all the bolts for on the hood of that car?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Pascal, what are all the bolts for on the hood of that car?
extra lights ?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Correction, this is a NEMBO on a Iso chassis, the Iso factory never had any hand in this car with the exception of selling them a chassis. What is odd on these cars is that they use a Rivolta GT chassis, yet it is cut and shortened to the same length as a Grifo? Why didn't they just use a Grifo chassis. A mystery.
not exactly, it s fake built in Italy 15 years ago

pascal2012:

race

pascal2012:

LeMans

velocetwo:

A3C driver Antonio Finiquerra at Bresso factory for anniversary celebration

pascal2012:

BO217
Better to talk over real things and not ghost who real became real after the magic spray

pascal2012:

REims 64

pascal2012:

5300

pascal2012:

BO226 Zeltweg

pascal2012:

BO201 ?

zorlac:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
BO201 ?
That's #201 at the "Großer Preis von Tirol" in Innsbruck, Austria in 4th of October 1964. Driver Finiguerra.

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
So the same car in posts #73 & #80. Can we see more photos please?
So now the car is for sale

pascal2012:

1965 Reims Chassis BO222 (who dont exist anymore) or BO226

velocetwo:

Notice the star on the tail end

pascal2012:

Giotto with American dealer ?

pascal2012:

Reims 64

pascal2012:

Nembo 7 Liter Ford Bizzarrini
Who known where is the car ?

pascal2012:

BA4 109

pascal2012:

ISO A3C 7000 Rivets Restoration

pascal2012:

201

pascal2012:

201

velocetwo:

The results of poor track design. Grass/turf on the race edges is outdated and dangerous. The turf should be removed and replaced with proper modern materials.

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
The results of poor track design. Grass/turf on the race edges is outdated and dangerous. The turf should be removed and replaced with proper modern materials.
i disagree as goodwood, it s for fun, now if you choose to drive flat out to please your big ego with a car that you didnt pay, it s your fault, not the track fault. at monaco, if you go over the line, you hit the wall, no excuses at all , then use your brain , my opinion

pascal2012:

Zeltweg 65

pascal2012:

The results of poor track design. Grass/turf on the race edges is outdated and dangerous. The turf should be removed and replaced with proper modern materials.

pascal2012:

Zeltweg 65

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
i disagree as goodwood, it s for fun, now if you choose to drive flat out to please your big ego with a car that you didnt pay, it s your fault, not the track fault. at monaco, if you go over the line, you hit the wall, no excuses at all , then use your brain , my opinion
Wet sod or turf is their a slipperier surface? yes maybe teflon, nuf said.

pascal2012:

Mugello 1987

pascal2012:

USA ?

pascal2012:

Where ?

pascal2012:

ISO A3C Restoration by the best

ghibliman:

Regardless of all the drama in this thread there are some FANTASTIC photos...thanks for digging these out and posting.

velocetwo:

Autostar

pascal2012:

historic racing

pascal2012:

Prototype

pascal2012:

Bizzarrini !

Olivier NAMECHE:

Here is the original prototype, I've shoot among other rarities.
It was presented at Cecina exhibition back in 2010... + poster of the exhibition
Cecina is not far away from Bizzarrini's home village : Quercianella.

velocetwo:

seeing it from that side angle you can see that Bizzarrini used his P538 mold to make the body. He got a lot of use out of that mold.

pascal2012:

factory

pascal2012:

in australia

pascal2012:

BO for Bizzarrini Omologatione 217 RHD Iso A3C

pascal2012:

ba4 106 ex lost car found by ...

DenisC:

Barn find Bizzarrini

Olivier NAMECHE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
ba4 106 ex lost car found by ...
....by Fantomas !!!!

Olivier NAMECHE:

here is...

rolando:

this is the one

rolando:

here it is

Olivier NAMECHE:

...and the result...

rolando:

The SI, never published before.

rolando:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolando
here it is
this drawing explains a lot in lambo's history...

Borzacchini Jr:

Something to add to Pascal's story...At the relatively recent times, some really talented boys, did some art “continuation”, in other field (Robert Driessen, Federico Joni, Han van Megereen...just to name some of them), never signing with others name their “continuations”, and entered in the history as biggest forgers ever. Well, I understand that my English and also English used by Pascal are not good enough to explain the concept of originality of some products, but at least in old Europe, in my country (I am Italian) these enterprises must be called copies. Just to clear, extremely well made Ferrari SWB 250 California replica, produced by Swiss Sbarro, was sold under Sbarro, and not Ferrari name, and had not Ferrari badges on it though it was perfectly identical to original. It was not cheap car, but the difference with original was unfathomable. The same with Lotus 7- Caterham 7 story and so on...I am sure that that was Pascal's main idea about the “continuation” versions generally. But beside the dispute about authenticity, I am really astonished by the quality and quantity of research material posted here. I have had some marginal touches with ISO and Bizzarrini in the past, but my knowledge was about 25% of the facts produced here...Just great!

pascal2012:

Corsa Bizzarrini Europa 1900, see the light weight chassis

Olivier NAMECHE:

it is the same car... just shoot it at high speed...

MRG22:

1966 Bizzarrini GT 5300 Strada Video
http://player.vimeo.com/video/67965861

pascal2012:

expo

pascal2012:

One of the Three Final Cars Built by Famed Italian Engineer Giotto Bizzarrini to be Offered at Russo and Steele?s Highly Anticipated Monterey Auction
what a joke and Lie !
Here photo of the parts delivery by Giotto, badly welded chassis, empty fiberglass, the car was not built by Giotto at all, but built in germany where chassis and body was redone

1turbobrick:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
expo
Where?

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
One of the Three Final Cars Built by Famed Italian Engineer Giotto Bizzarrini to be Offered at Russo and Steele?s Highly Anticipated Monterey Auction
what a joke and Lie !
Here photo of the parts delivery by Giotto, badly welded chassis, empty fiberglass, the car was not built by Giotto at all, but built in germany where chassis and body was redone
What was done to the chassis, besides attaching components ? LOL as far as the bad welding goes that just helps prove it was built by bizzarrini :-)

pascal2012:

Did entry list for :P:ebble Beach already exist ?

pascal2012:

Scoop.
New scam orchestred by Jack Hoob de Hartog who offer privately this complet fake supposed chassis 228 for 450 000 euro.
And the American ISO Bizzarrini club is complice as this crook is everywhere on their web site and try to pick up victims
This car was built in Italy a fews years ago and can be very easely seen as a bad replica.
Of course Jack dont make too much publicity for it as he try without success to stay below the radar of the real experts.
Your comments are welcome but I m sure that the Club will defend him as he may share the profit ?

velocetwo:

Here is the IBOC website, the IBOC is the official Iso Bizzarrini club for North America.
I don't see anything you mention, so I'm not sure what your taking about?
http://www.isobizclub.com/

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Here is the IBOC website, the IBOC is the official Iso Bizzarrini club for North America.
I don't see anything you mention, so I'm not sure what your taking about?
http://www.isobizclub.com/
Yes, that the Club, if the offer was honest and real, dont you think that they will discuss aboiut it there ? But they dont, as Hartog try to burn somebody under the radar

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Yes, that the Club, if the offer was honest and real, dont you think that they will discuss aboiut it there ? But they dont, as Hartog try to burn somebody under the radar
Why the fake 228 is not on the isobizchat where Hartog is a member ?
Everythings is clear and it s scandal that he is still part on this club if this one known about his wrong behaviour.
When you see a crime and dont report it, you are complice

1turbobrick:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Yes, that the Club, dont you think that they will discuss aboiut it there
Where exactly would it be discussed there? Maybe I'm blind but I see no facility to discuss anything on that site. Of course, this question won't be answered, just like my other questions in this thread. Instead of constantly attacking others, why not try to participate in some meaningful discussion?

sf10212:

Mr Olczyk is typically here "the pot calling the kettle black".

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbobrick
Where exactly would it be discussed there? Maybe I'm blind but I see no facility to discuss anything on that site. Of course, this question won't be answered, just like my other questions in this thread. Instead of constantly attacking others, why not try to participate in some meaningful discussion?
You see, you blame me of attacking others when in reality, I TRY TO SAVE a collector NOT TO BE BURN by theses people.
When you put a real chassis number on a FAKE car and try to sell it under the radar, you are a criminal and the real collector are happy by my intervention, many people from this club are involve in criminal behaviour.

1turbobrick:

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
You see, you blame me of attacking others when in reality, I TRY TO SAVE a collector NOT TO BE BURN by theses people.
When you put a real chassis number on a FAKE car and try to sell it under the radar, you are a criminal and the real collector are happy by my intervention, many people from this club are involve in criminal behaviour.
@pascal2012
As Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
With your intimate knowledge of these activities it may be appropriate for you to report this to the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
I suspect they will want to hear all of the details and the evidence that you have.
You can find FBI contact information for their European offices at this link: FBI ? Europe
And their main contact page is - FBI ? Contact Us
Once they start their investigation it is possible that they will ask you to keep all information on these matters confidential until their investigation is complete.

pascal2012:

Bizzarrini Europa Lightweight

pascal2012:

Bizzarrini 1900

pascal2012:

ISO A3C or Bizzarrini ?

pascal2012:

Chassis 271 = What the name for it ?
I believe that the car was original at some point but chassis number is wrong, car have been rebuilt like a buggy...or a kit car, what s disaster

pascal2012:

Chassis 271 is wrong

Ed Niles:

Where is B210/B214, the car that I once owned, built from two Sebring wrecks? Not the fake 214, but the car that was built by Max Balchowsky from the front of one and the rear of the other. Still in the barn?

velocetwo:

Sitting in a garage of a house located in Los Angeles that hasn't been sold in forty years.

pascal2012:

please contact me by PM

velocetwo:

This is only my guess.

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Where is B210/B214, the car that I once owned, built from two Sebring wrecks? Not the fake 214, but the car that was built by Max Balchowsky from the front of one and the rear of the other. Still in the barn?
Ed more info on your old car located at My car quest.
Maybe you can answer this question, unlike other A3C's your car had two rows of rivets on the front fenders, was it always like that? and the purpose?

pascal2012:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Sitting in a garage of a house located in Los Angeles that hasn't been sold in forty years.
REWARD 50 000 $ if you help me locate the car

alaind:

what about this one ?

velocetwo:

fiberglass

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
fiberglass
BO226

velocetwo:

Alaind, I can see you are new to Fchat with only ten posts. This thread is for serious discussion of real Bizzarrini cars.
Until there is a photo of a serial number it's just another fiberglass kit car, and there are a plenty of those around.

alaind:

ex nurburgring 1965 and austria 1965, and it s not a bizzarrini but a iso a3c

velocetwo:

kit car without the stamp

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
kit car without the stamp
yes, you are right, lol it is a kit car with original paint from 1965 and with still all the marques of his racing career. if you see it on ebay for 5000 $, i will pay double ...

velocetwo:

I wonder what Mr. Merritt or Mr. Lotti would think of this? Yours would be the third 226.

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
I wonder what Mr. Merritt or Mr. Lotti would think of this? Yours would be the third 226.
both of them don t own BO226, as it s only one race car from 1965 in original untouched condition.

velocetwo:

I believe the other two are listed as IA30226, wasn't this car restored by Bizzarrini in 1975? now yellow

alaind:

ia30234 = also bo234

alaind:

wrong shape

alaind:

a bizzarrini can only be restored in italy by people who known them correctly .of course some people around the world can restore a car but without the originals forms, it s impossible to do it correctly

velocetwo:

Sebring car after Balchowsky put the two pieces back together.

DenisC:

And you told us you knew everything Bizzarini.
Now we are all lost

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
And you told us you knew everything Bizzarini.
Now we are all lost
?? To see God, go to the church ..

Ed Niles:

Regarding post no. 244, Chuck Porter, a well-known fabricator, did most of the work in gluing the two parts together, although it was done at Max's shop and no doubt with his input and work. They were both excellent "seat of the pants" builders. Stories were floated that when Max set out to build a car (hot-rod or a version of Ol' Yeller) he would just chalk it out on the garage floor and go from there! Them wuz the dayz.

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Regarding post no. 244, Chuck Porter, a well-known fabricator, did most of the work in gluing the two parts together, although it was done at Max's shop and no doubt with his input and work. They were both excellent "seat of the pants" builders. Stories were floated that when Max set out to build a car (hot-rod or a version of Ol' Yeller) he would just chalk it out on the garage floor and go from there! Them wuz the dayz.
ED, your comments are very well appreciate

velocetwo:

Targa Florio

align:

How can you make thses without the originals moulds ? FOR IA30234

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
How can you make thses without the originals moulds ? FOR IA30234
Are they Drogo molds, B&B or Catarsi?
But with todays scanning technology this is no longer true, in fact the molds made by todays scanners are at a much higher level because you can get 100% symmetry between the left and right side of a car.

alaind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
Are they Drogo molds, B&B or Catarsi?
But with todays scanning technology this is no longer true, in fact the molds made by todays scanners are at a much higher level because you can get 100% symmetry between the left and right side of a car.
Well, when you see the car, you understand what I means

velocetwo:

There are many that will in a few weeks.

alaind:

A3C

alaind:

Drogo ISO

velocetwo:

Austria the anti Ferrari
Bondurant had his rear inboard disc slice through the bottom of the car, you can see how this was possible

246tasman:

Silverstone Classic 2013 - Jamie McIntyre
What chassis # ?

velocetwo:

IA3 0241

246tasman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
IA3 0241
Thanks!

alaind:

ISO

BLT2DRIVE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
historic racing
The blue car is a straighter,thinner shaped body(Strada) where as the red car is curvier, much larger fender shapes at the front, and hips at the rear fenders....(Corsa) Great shot of the two distinct shapes...not to mention the many,many variations of front turn signal lights, A3/C badging vs Bizzarrini, rivets or no rivets, several front side vents styles, hoods flat and with the round bulge, flat rear glass vs rounded, two vs four taillights *( note the Corsa pictured has later round rear glass,yet still carried over the early four taillights) I love seeing all the archived photos and see that they were indeed hand-built, variations about every three cars as things changed and developed...

alaind:

ISO A3C Drogo Pebble Beach 2013

alaind:

BO213 ISO Drogo A3C Pebble Beach 2013

alaind:

ISO A3C Drogo Pebble Beach

alaind:

ISO A3C

alaind:

BO216

alaind:

BO213

alaind:

BO213...this is correct restoration

alaind:

BO216 ISO A3C Original Colour Lemon Green

alaind:

BO219, everybody is talking about BUT NOBODY known except that I ve seen the car last week and Chris Lakner also have seen the original papers...from 196.
The goosips stop when the facts talk

alain45:

See this car ?

alain45:

Bizz 5300, what a restoration

alain45:

Racing France

alain45:

BO 213

alain45:

BO213 ISO A3C in Italy

tritone:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alain45
Racing France
;-) Sigh.....I could be very happy with nearly any one of those cars....... ;-)

alain45:

BO213 Pebble Beach 2013

alain45:

Manta

alain45:

BO 213

alain45:

BO 213 restored in Italy 2013

Jota 5084:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alaind
Manta
When it was with a Swedish owner.

merstheman:

Guys, what is your take on the Europa that popped up on BaT today?
Baby Bizzarrini: 1969 Europa 1900

Jota 5084:

Check out the other items the seller lists................
0664802444 | eBay

crossram:

it is discussed here

Lambodriver:

1967/2 Bizzarrini A3C GT Strada 5300 gt strada for sale: Anamera
680.000 EUR

Jota 5084:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crossram
it is discussed here
Yahoo! Groups
Its also discussed on the BaT page, scroll down.

alain45:

europa

alain45:

Bizzarrini

alain45:

Service book for Bizzarrini 5300 for sale in France, very rare
Send me PM if interested

alain45:

BA4 106 found by Philippe Olczyk in Pisa

alain45:

Oupsss

alain45:

Bizz

alain45:

Bizzarrini Restored

alain45:

Libretto SErvice
Original Bizzarrini 5300 Service Book | eBay

bellabarbas:

Seen in Padova (October 2013), who know the history ?

SilverThunder:

This is the second continuation A3/C built by Roberto Negri (the Iso restoration workshop at ISO RESTORATION and crew. Here it is on it's way to the Borrani display in Padua. The original Iso sheet metal workers built this car out of the (still) available original parts. A handful more are in the making right now for clients who ordered one.

alain45:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverThunder
This is the second continuation A3/C built by Roberto Negri (the Iso restoration workshop at ISO RESTORATION and crew. Here it is on it's way to the Borrani display in Padua. The original Iso sheet metal workers built this car out of the (still) available original parts. A handful more are in the making right now for clients who ordered one.
COMPLET LIE....and only a fool can believe it ....
Built with originals parts ? Which one, car was built by giotto bizzarrini in very small scale with the first mecanic salvatore diomante( who is the only one the world to have the originals tools).
The Original metal workers was Drogo people in Modena or if you prefer Auto Sport Modena, it was in 1965, then it was 48 years ago, then let s say that the people had 20 years ago, they should have 68 minimum and ....Salvatore Diomante have 73 years old today.
This car built by Negri is no more than a replica built in 2013 with new parts but as they are asking 350 or 400 000 Euro, they need to justify the value by claiming falses stories, project who is financed by Gerd who import in USA falses P538 with falses papers to the custom
but everythings have been said and proven here http://classicscars.com/phpmembers/chassis/iso.htm

amenasce:

Im not sure if this one has been discussed but it was for sale last year and seems to be back :
Bizzarini Iso A3C 1965 Rot
I read it is not really chassis # 214.

MRG22:

Does the seller claim it is No. 214?

amenasce:

They claim it was one of the 1965 Sebring car. The documentation i received back then from the dealer was a recount of the Sebring race.
Anyone knows what chassis it is?
The asking price last year was 670.000 CHF. I am sure it is more today.

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
They claim it was one of the 1965 Sebring car. The documentation i received back then from the dealer was a recount of the Sebring race.
Anyone knows what chassis it is?
The asking price last year was 670.000 CHF. I am sure it is more today.
The two Iso/Bizzarrini cars in the 1965 Sebring race (210 & 214) were destroyed in the race. No. 214 was split in half. Max Balchowsky took the pieces of both cars back to California and arranged to have them assembled into one car which has not been seen since 1965 or 1966. I published a first hand account of this race on My Car Quest written by C. Rino Argento who helped Giotto Bizzarrini manage the Iso/Bizzarrini team for that race.

velocetwo:

i own the original engine to the A3C Balchowsky car. Documented.

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
i own the original engine to the A3C Balchowsky car. Documented.
Yes, the engine has been found but not the car.

amenasce:

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocetwo
i own the original engine to the A3C Balchowsky car. Documented.
So what does that make of the swiss car?

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
So what does that make of the swiss car?
I have pictures of the car after it was finished in Los Angles, it didn't look like it did during the race. I would be willing to meet and discuss this with anyone who thinks they have 210/214

ferraris527:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
So what does that make of the swiss car?
All real insiders of Bizzarrini world known that the Swiss car is a fake built in Italy 5 or 6 years ago, and the body was mould from the 7 Liters Le Mans 1966 Race car.
Body Which is unique and absolutely not a ISO A3C ...
Then the body shop built a alloy car with special chassis and the buyer put a number on it just to go racing. The actual owner (Luttzinger) of the car known that the car is fake, but still try to sell it stupidely at the ex sebring racer.
Life is the jungle

Jack KdH:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris527
All real insiders of Bizzarrini world known that the Swiss car is a fake built in Italy 5 or 6 years ago, and the body was mould from the 7 Liters Le Mans 1966 Race car.
Body Which is unique and absolutely not a ISO A3C ...
Then the body shop built a alloy car with special chassis and the buyer put a number on it just to go racing. The actual owner (Luttzinger) of the car known that the car is fake, but still try to sell it stupidely at the ex sebring racer.
Life is the jungle
In fact this story seems to be correct. The car was built by Vincenzo Marciano in Ponsacco. I have the feeling this workshop is often used by people who are interested in replica cars......
But also other well known workshops in Italy are willing to produce replica cars with no chassis number stamped ...
Ciao,
Jack

Ed Niles:

Hi Velocetwo. When I bought 210/214 from Max, I opted to not buy the engine. But Ralph Brouett, to whom I sold the project and who finished it, claimed that he put the orig. engine in it. 210 or 214, I dunno. All a great mystery where that car could be. The best hoarder around here was Rudi Klein, but his sons say it is not in their warehouse.

fer2000:

Iso Grifo A3C ? Bizzarrini 5300 GT @ Le Mans

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Hi Velocetwo. But Ralph Brouett, to whom I sold the project and who finished it, claimed that he put the orig. engine in it. 210 or 214, I dunno.
This is correct, after purchasing the car from you Ralph went back to Balchowsky and purchased the Sebring engine and installed it.
Later when Ralph sold the car the buyer took it for a test drive and said he liked the car but the engine was too wild. He told Ralph if he (Ralph) could put a milder engine in the car he would buy it.
That was a easy solution because Ralph had your engine sitting in his garage, so the swap was made. The race engine came out, your engine went in, car was sold...... and the race engine then sat in Ralph's garage for all those years.
The buyer kept the car for a few months and then it showed up on a used car lot, spotted by Ralph...... then it disappeared. Never has been seen since.
Here is a photo of the car after it was finished that I received with the engine.

MRG22:

Written by C. Rino Argento who helped manage the Iso/Bizzarrini team that terrible week in Sebring in 1965.
Two Crashed Iso Grifo/Bizzarrini Race Cars Are Still Missing - Sebring 12 Hours 1965 - Part 1
Two Crashed Iso Grifo/Bizzarrini Race Cars Are Still Missing ? Sebring 12 Hours 1965 ? Part 2
Seeking ? One Lost Iso Grifo A3/C Bizzarrini Race Car
If anyone knows anything about the location of this Iso/Bizzarrini race car contact me.

velocetwo:

No please contact me as I have the engine

Ed Niles:

Or me. That's my photo, taken at Sal DiNatale's shop just as I wheeled it in after purchase from Max B. Sal's son Jimmy at the rear wheel.

MRG22:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Hi Velocetwo. When I bought 210/214 from Max, I opted to not buy the engine. But Ralph Brouett, to whom I sold the project and who finished it, claimed that he put the orig. engine in it. 210 or 214, I dunno. All a great mystery where that car could be. The best hoarder around here was Rudi Klein, but his sons say it is not in their warehouse.
Ed - what was the chassis number used for the combined car? Based on the photos it looks like the front end of No. 214 was in the best shape so was 214 the chassis number used since the chassis stamp is in the engine bay?

ClassicAB:

ISO a3c bo221 for sale in gemany

velocetwo:

On it's wary to the USA

velocetwo:

Sebring 1965

velocetwo:

Iso Rivolta A3C at Sebring 1965

benmou:

Here again

BLT2DRIVE:

#222 @ it's new home... in initial form ... the first of the glass Corsa body as well... verified to me by Stefano Volpi himself...

velocetwo:

That's a bad ass ride!

velocetwo:

A3C

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
In fact this story seems to be correct. The car was built by Vincenzo Marciano in Ponsacco. I have the feeling this workshop is often used by people who are interested in replica cars......
But also other well known workshops in Italy are willing to produce replica cars with no chassis number stamped ...
Ciao,
Jack
If some people built chassis, Mr Hartog is also a partner of theses dutch people who have built cars, and Mr Hartog is now in a bad position with the police
Bizzarrini - Anciennes - FORUM Collections

benmou:

I have put my car with Diomante and is now under restoration
May 2015, the Artcurial Bizzarrini ex Lavost is there now for small restoration
His office is full of Miura, Bizzarrini , Alfa pre war, waiting list ...sadly

benmou:

My car

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenasce
If some people built chassis, Mr Hartog is also a partner of theses dutch people who have built cars, and Mr Hartog is now in a bad position with the police
Bizzarrini - Anciennes - FORUM Collections
Here car involve, Mr Hartog is involve in a lots of scandal

benmou:

Everythings is wrong with this car ....

benmou:

Compare with the perfection of Diomante

Ney:

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, as I only stop into this thread every once in a while, but as it pertains to Iso A3C #0228 and Ferrarichat, it should probably be included in the record.....
I do not know the validity of either sides of this claim or dispute.

velocetwo:

Sports cars Modena

damian in nj:

I'm not reading through 17 pages, but I did see that Mr. Diomante was on the tv show Restoration Garage last night; he sourced a set of trafficators for a 1940's Alfa Romeo for David Grainger, owner of The Guild of Automotive Restorers.

damian in nj:

Shown here
http://www.facebook.com/ron.ciardell...type=2&theater

benmou:

My car iso a3c , colour orange below the black, now under restoation

velocetwo:

or rust

benmou:

better view of orange ?

benmou:

Original colour

prototypefan:

1967 Bizzarrini 5300 GT Strada -

benmou:

iso a3c bo219 , best documentation ever ?

benmou:

swiss import papers from 1966, title from 1969..

benmou:

look like that some malicious people dont like de sibenthal
Pierre de Siebenthal (CH) - All Results - Racing Sports Cars
and salvatore diomante, but the truth is easy to prove

benmou:

when owner found out theses dishonest and malicious comments, he order a cerrtification from italians tribunal and swiss customs...here the certification that will bring heat to the fellow who have behave dishonestly.
Strange world

benmou:

Iso A3C Franco Sbarro

benmou:

Iso A3C B-0232, now in France I think

benmou:

Oliver Kuttner workshop where he built recreations 5300 Bizzarrinis,
All cars built by Kuttner now can be found in the book of Jack Koobs de Hartog.
May be I miss a episode but we never saw a recreation Ferrari inside a serious Ferrari book !
One of them was sold to Wolfie the famous Maserati collector who then send all the parts to Diomante. After a 4 pages report made by Diomante, Wolfie sold the recreation quickly to somebody else, but how this kit car found a space inside the book of Jack with a chassis number ?
then stock sold to Jim Carpenter Bizzarrini Strada | Jim Carpenter's Italian Design and Racing

benmou:

The behaviour of Jim Carpenter using photos of Ia3-0222 (real car ) to promote his ugly business is very strange

carvad:

benmou or better Philippe Olczyk, your approach is too monotonous.

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by carvad
benmou or better Philippe Olczyk, your approach is too monotonous.
Путін н не завершив свою роботу з Україною. Володимир, бути людиною і прийти поговорити мене обличчям

benmou:

Finiguerra 1964 with B-201

benmou:

Bo215 rhd car

benmou:

Bo215 rhd car

benmou:

bo213 in california

benmou:

ia30340 ex pozzoli france

Olivier NAMECHE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
Путін н не завершив свою роботу з Україною. Володимир, бути людиною і прийти поговорити мене обличчям
fair translation is :
"""" Mr. Putin has not completed its work with Ukraine. Vladimir, be a man and come talk to me face """"
Like many members on this Forum, I still Wonder why the MODERATORS are not banning such a guy who is often writing personnal attack on Ferrari Chat, with so multiple changes of avatar and so many personnal physical threads ???
www.nclubsport.com
www.lamborghiniclubbelgium.com
www.jaramaregistry.com
www.lamborghini-islero-6009.com

readplays:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
bo202
Philippe you've already posted this pic but I suppose that's fair because 'technically' you were a different person when you did so.

Olivier carvad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
fair translation is :
"""" Mr. Putin has not completed its work with Ukraine. Vladimir, be a man and come talk to me face """"
Like many members on this Forum, I still Wonder why the MODERATORS are not banning such a guy who is often writing personnal attack on Ferrari Chat, with so multiple changes of avatar and so many personnal physical threads ???
The real name of the user with nickname "benmou" is Philippe Olczyk. He is banned user at this forum. Mr. Olczyk wants to talk "face to face" but even can't write my name correctly.

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by carvad
The real name of the user with nickname "benmou" is Philippe Olczyk. He is banned user at this forum. Mr. Olczyk wants to talk "face to face" but even can't write my name correctly.
as i dont agree with you and your friends, then i should be olczyk?
then many of us are olczyk, many of us are pro putin,
in this world , better to be olczyk than vladimir
then to be a good guy, i need to agree with you and say that you are the best vladimir ?
why you just dont post good infos or photos like me ?
if you have a problem with olczyk, talk to him directly or may be he refuse to talk to you , he refuse to give you photos of the manta ? this is why you are upset ? ot may be because i post the email from your partner who badmouth all cars restored by diomante and that they will bring him to justice ? the community are happy to see the facts, the proofs of bad behaviour. and if you want to see me, come, you will find out that i m not olczyk,
photo b=0216, restored by diomante and badmouth by your partner

carvad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
as i dont agree with you and your friends, then i should be olczyk?
then many of us are olczyk, many of us are pro putin,
in this world , better to be olczyk than vladimir
then to be a good guy, i need to agree with you and say that you are the best vladimir ?
why you just dont post good infos or photos like me ?
if you have a problem with olczyk, talk to him directly or may be he refuse to talk to you , he refuse to give you photos of the manta ? this is why you are upset ? ot may be because i post the email from your partner who badmouth all cars restored by diomante and that they will bring him to justice ? the community are happy to see the facts, the proofs of bad behaviour. and if you want to see me, come, you will find out that i m not olczyk,
photo b=0216, restored by diomante and badmouth by your partner
You have just given himself away. You should be Olczyk because I have correspondence about Manta with Olczyk not with "benmou".
I'm journalist so I don't take sides in disputes. I have no business with Jack Koobs de Hartog, he just helped me with info about Bizzarrini Manta for my article about this car. I have no business with Philippe Olczyk, I just asked him for help with info about Bizzarrini Manta when car was restored by Salvatore Diomante. But in response to a request for assistance Mr. Olczyk asked me several times to give access to Bizzarrini P538 on the Facebook. He was in interested only in access to P538 groupe and nothing else. I believe the only reason Mr Olczyk needs the access to P538 group on Facebook is disorder in this community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
if you have a problem with olczyk, talk to him directly or may be he refuse to talk to you , he refuse to give you photos of the manta ?
I have no problems with benmou-Olczyk, I think Mr Olczyk has problems with himself.

benmou:

You have just given himself away, you have a agenda against him as he refuse to help you.
And your conversations with are all over internet on facebook, inside a club where you have no access. Club for owners of Bizzarrini and everybody have seen that the link about the Manta story have been deleted...
I get all my infos there
Then, you are a journalist ? Good but where is your good posts like me about Bizzarrini to share with the community ? Leave me alone with your obsession of Olczyk.
Come to see me in person, but stop with your obsession
Share with us your good infos or photos, when I means sharing, its posting here, not trying to take away traffic to your unknown website
Show your good faith Vladimir, posts good unseen photos HERE

benmou:

B-0213 before restoration

carvad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
You have just given himself away, you have a agenda against him as he refuse to help you.
And your conversations with are all over internet on facebook, inside a club where you have no access. Club for owners of Bizzarrini and everybody have seen that the link about the Manta story have been deleted...
I get all my infos there
Then, you are a journalist ? Good but where is your good posts like me about Bizzarrini to share with the community ? Leave me alone with your obsession of Olczyk.
Come to see me in person, but stop with your obsession
Share with us your good infos or photos, when I means sharing, its posting here, not trying to take away traffic to your unknown website
Show your good faith Vladimir, posts good unseen photos HERE
My name is Vadim, not Vladimir. You are visually impaired if you don't see what's my name in profile The same about links.
Okay, I'll call you Philip. And I leave you alone Philip with all your fake names and nicknames. Good luck.

benmou:

B-0216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzrl_x_tLbA

carvad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
My name is Vadim, not Vladimir. You are visually impaired if you don't see what's my name in profile The same about links.
Okay, I'll call you Philip. And I leave you alone Philip with all your fake names and nicknames. Good luck.
dear Vladimir, I m sorry that you have a obsession, but we are here to discuss about iso a3c or bizzarrini, leave outside your obsession please.

Olivier NAMECHE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier NAMECHE
fair translation is :
"""" Mr. Putin has not completed its work with Ukraine. Vladimir, be a man and come talk to me face """"
Like many members on this Forum, I still Wonder why the MODERATORS are not banning such a guy who is often writing personnal attack on Ferrari Chat, with so multiple changes of avatar and so many personnal physical threads ???
As a matter of fact, "benmou" is still among us to share his nice pics, so I may have wrongly interpreted/translated his words as Moderators have not followed my understanding. So, I apologise for my comment, the "reader" will make his own conclusion !

www.nclubsport.com
www.lamborghiniclubbelgium.com
www.jaramaregistry.com
www.lamborghini-islero-6009.com

Jota 5084:

Im sure that most of long time forum members knows what's going on.

benmou:

B-0201 Austria 1964

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jota 5084
Im sure that most of long time forum members knows what's going on.
Ferrarichats ambivalence has resulted in a one sided PR event that most of the old timers recognize, so the result is not much different from a Putin state. Enjoy the pretty pictures.

benmou:

bizzarrini spyder, with lambo engine

benmou:

bo201 austria

benmou:

bo211 in monterey

benmou:

First Owner of B-0201 Finiguerra is not with us anymore
https://www.facebook.com/mauro.finiguerra.7?fref=ufi

benmou:

B-0222 Iso fiberglass Austria 1965

benmou:

Iso B-0226 Austria 1965

benmou:

B-0201 Finiguerra in Austria

benmou:

Here the moulds own by Oliver Kuttner who have built many Fiberglass kit car in USA, some time with the help of Jack Hartog who put them inside his book ...
Now theses parts are offer by Jim Carpenter in Arizona

Olivier carvad:

benmou:

Here the kit car built by Kuttner and sold to Wolfi as a real car, this one send the car to GPS Classics in Italy and of course, this one send it to Diomante who made a 4 pages report on this kit car. By reading the report Wolfi get rid of it directly and sold it to somebody else.
Now the kit car is in Switerzerland and the mechanic have contacted Diomante to buy parts. This one refuse.
Here a clear demonstration link between Kuttner the kit car buiilder and Jack Hartog who use his book for promoting kit car !
Below is the now famous replica bo 228 built in Holland by the friend of Hartog and also inside the famous book

benmou:

Here real cars in alloy 1964, one of them is bo208 but dont known which one

benmou:

This is Oliver Kuttner parts that was sold to Jim Carpenter, as you can see, Oliver Kuttner was building kit car using parts of chassis Iso, by this way, he can claim that chassis was original. And of course, all this game is only possible if you have a associate Hartog who can promote the kit cars in a book.

benmou:

All the evidences are there

benmou:

All the evidences are there, after the mick mack, they finally sold the kit car to a fool who then believe they he own a real car because he own a rusty chassis

benmou:

Early Iso A3C with flat screen

benmou:

Carpenter Bizzarri i business Bizzarrini Strada | Jim Carpenter's Italian Design and Racing

benmou:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BECtoiYgZR7/

benmou:

The first one

benmou:

Schloss Bensberg Classic 2016. | Ruoteclassiche

benmou:

Grandiose Kulisse ? Elegante Oldtimer ? Schloss Bensberg Classic ? classic-car.tv

Ed Niles:

I have many regrets; one of them is selling my old A3C, B0214. I never had a chance to drive it. What's the going price on an Iso A3C these days?

Ed Niles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
I have many regrets; one of them is selling my old A3C, B0214. I never had a chance to drive it. What's the going price on an Iso A3C these days?
Will offer 100 000 $ if someone found the car for me !

benmou:

BO207 England

benmou:

BO207

benmou:

James Graser Iso A3C DARM GT Avus 1965 - Race Results - Racing Sports Cars

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
James Graser Iso A3C DARM GT Avus 1965 - Race Results - Racing Sports Cars
We see the car on the left ....

benmou:

Very difficult to find Avus 1965 photos, the owner will offer a reward for help

benmou:

BO209 ex Hallyday the french singer

WJGESQ:

Wow that's a looker.

WJGESQ:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pascal2012
Fake car 100 % New using Chassis Number 214. Big Scam
Still cool in appearance.

Ed Niles:

Why would a faker use the number of an existing car? Duh!

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Why would a faker use the number of an existing car? Duh!
because the car doesn't exsist or should I say is still missing. 214 was crashed at Sebring and disappeared after you sold it to the paint bodyshop guy.
The car is still missing

Ed Niles:

Dream on.

velocetwo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Dream on.
Ed,
Not sure you understood what I said You owned 0214 correct?
You sold it to Ralph Bruett
Brouett sold it to a unknown person and the car then ended up on a used car lot six months later in LA
Missing ever since.........
The crashed Sebring A3C has never been found
BTW I found the engine to the car. The engines serial number matches factory documents. I also have some other items but I keep those private to validate the authenticity.

benmou:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0816-25...3c-bizzarrini/

benmou:

The ISO from le mans but for some reasons, the car is always known as 222 Wich is incorrect, as the car from le mans was bo222, later châssis number was change as ia30222, the reason why some people want the real story to disapear...

benmou:

Iso A3C BO219 from auction Mecum have been sold before auction ....
ISO A3C | Legendary Classic Center LLC
Sold to Europe

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Niles
Ed,
Not sure you understood what I said You owned 0214 correct?
You sold it to Ralph Bruett
Brouett sold it to a unknown person and the car then ended up on a used car lot six months later in LA
Missing ever since.........
The crashed Sebring A3C has never been found
BTW I found the engine to the car. The engines serial number matches factory documents. I also have some other items but I keep those private to validate the authenticity.
Ed, what have you done, selling the Sebring car ............
Can you sleep well ?

benmou:

Unique story of Iso A3C BO216
When car was in USA, was was known as 286 ! as this title was use for it.
Why ? Because a plate was weld on top of chassis number
Then a more clever man in USA look deeper and have seen 216 below the plate ( it was a space but you need to lift the car )
But as car look like a 5300 Strada, nobody took notice until a even more clever bought the car and send it to Diomante who remember very well that he modify this car late *60* after car roll over.
Restoration was done and documented and finally car restore was sold by RM Retromobile 2015. All this to demonstrate that hard work and knownledge is needed to have success

benmou:

More will come
The car was restore from A to Z and is today one of the best Iso A3C in the world and the only one Apple Green

benmou:

More will come
The car was restore from A to Z and is today one of the best Iso A3C in the world and the only one Apple Green

benmou:

What a restoration and what a fantastic that the USA have miss

SilverThunder:

Great work on a fantastic car! I'm sure you meant to write it used to be B0283.

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverThunder
Great work on a fantastic car! I'm sure you meant to write it used to be B0283.
I don't understand your post, sorry.
The job was not done by me, but Diomante, then the reward for to him.

SilverThunder:

We all know Diomante restored it and he did a great job. You wrote in your previous post that the car was renumbered as B0286 - it really was B0283, that's all.

benmou:

What are you talking about ?
I have said that the car was known before as ia30286 because the title of this number was use for it, but the car chassis number was always bo216 under the plate welded.
To see it, you need to remove the plate and work a little bit..
Now we all known that nobody in America knew it , this is why a European had the chance to buy it. Anyway, nobody in USA have the knowledge to restore it correctly, then all things finish good.

prototypefan:

IA3-0286 has been known since new in the USA
the car has less than 20,000 miles now and sits in a private collection that includes Pebble Beach preservation class winning cars in Canada
other than a repaint and some maintenance the car is unrestored and very original

velocetwo:

can we just close this thread..

benmou:

Why we need to close this successful thread with more than 300 000 views ?
We all learn somethings.
Bo216 was always bo216, it was just using a other title. Nothing very special.

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by prototypefan
IA3-0286 has been known since new in the USA
the car has less than 20,000 miles now and sits in a private collection that includes Pebble Beach preservation class winning cars in Canada
other than a repaint and some maintenance the car is unrestored and very original
We all known your car, please post good photos.
It s better for everybody that things are clear

benmou:

ISO a3c from Germany concours last month

benmou:

Concours d elegance Germany 2016

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
Unique story of Iso A3C BO216
When car was in USA, was was known as 286 ! as this title was use for it.
Why ? Because a plate was weld on top of chassis number
Then a more clever man in USA look deeper and have seen 216 below the plate ( it was a space but you need to lift the car )
But as car look like a 5300 Strada, nobody took notice until a even more clever bought the car and send it to Diomante who remember very well that he modify this car late *60* after car roll over.
Restoration was done and documented and finally car restore was sold by RM Retromobile 2015. All this to demonstrate that hard work and knownledge is needed to have success
It was late, I was tired but it look like, I m not the only one !
BO216 was using title of IA30283, not 286 !!!!
Why, because IA30283 was badly crash in the front.
At the end, it change nothings, car was always BO216, the only thing was to remove the welded plate on top of it !

Peter Tabmow:

Am I the only one who thinks this thread has crossed the line from enthusiasm to fetishism?

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tabmow
Am I the only one who thinks this thread has crossed the line from enthusiasm to fetishism?
Lol
fetishismor fetichism
[fet-i-shiz-uh m, fee-ti-]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun
1. belief in or use of fetishes.
2. Psychiatry. the compulsive use of some object, or part of the body, as a stimulus in the course of attaining sexual gratification, as a shoe, a lock of hair, or underclothes.
I like your humour and if you believe that it s fetishism, it s your right, I prefer The Automotive Archaeologist.
The A3C or Bizzarrini deserve to be well treated and deserve that the rumours are replace by the facts and the success of this thread prove that a lots of people think my way

benmou:

Iso A3C

benmou:

Iso at Le Mans

19633500GT:

If anyone is interested in a 427 Grifo, a '68, I know of one available, it will be in the low $500K's.
If there's interested, serious interest, PM me for details.
I'm on the East Coast.
Thanks

benmou:

Period photos

benmou:

CHantilly Concours 2015

benmou:

Chantilly 2015

benmou:

CHantilly, I think, it s BO230 ?

benmou:

Club ISO Bizzarrini France Chantilly Concours 2016

benmou:

COncours CHantilly 2016

benmou:

Concours Paris Chantilly 2016

benmou:

The factory
Iso A3C, Europa

benmou:

New scam in construction in Europe
Let s explain from the beggining.
Oliver Kuttner have made bad moulds for the construction of replica Bizzarrini 5300, theses moulds are now with Jim Carpenter Bizzarrini Strada | Jim Carpenter's Italian Design and Racing using photos of Gregor Fisken chassis IA30222 now in USA
Kuttner had build many replicas, but sold them with lost chassis number, of course, he need to have some support to help him to legitimate theses replicas, then he found Jack Hoobs de Hartog who agree to print his "stories" inside his book. Did Hartog was paid ? or Did Hartog was naive ?
Anyway here the words of Hartog and Kuttner concerning Iso A3C BO227 in plastic ( Yes, they are not afraid )
Then Kuttner sold his story to Dr Zweifler better known under the nick name of WOLFY ( collector of Maserati Barchetta).
Wolfy in good faith ? send the car to GPS Classic in Brescia Italy for restoration

benmou:

Iso A3C BO227 ex Kuttner/ Zweifler
Now the story became more interesting as GPS who are not a specialist of Bizzarrini then send the car to Diomante, the only expert for theses cars ( I known he only have 50 yeaars of experience ) Then a full report was made and send to Wolfy who after reading it get scare and sold it to somebody else.
Then the new owner try to buy parts from Diomante but this one refuse,
As you see on the photos, it s replica with fake chassis number stamp, and bad construction 100 % wrong.
Today, the new owner try to enter the car to race in France with Patrick Peter, we hope that they have internet as he will save them o lots of time.
In his book, Hartog explain to us that car was use to build a other replica ?
Where is the camera as all theses people involve, do they really believe that the community is stupid ?

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
CHantilly, I think, it s BO230 ?
Chassis is BO229

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmou
New scam in construction in Europe
Let s explain from the beggining.
Oliver Kuttner have made bad moulds for the construction of replica Bizzarrini 5300, theses moulds are now with Jim Carpenter Bizzarrini Strada | Jim Carpenter's Italian Design and Racing using photos of Gregor Fisken chassis IA30222 now in USA
Kuttner had build many replicas, but sold them with lost chassis number, of course, he need to have some support to help him to legitimate theses replicas, then he found Jack Hoobs de Hartog who agree to print his "stories" inside his book. Did Hartog was paid ? or Did Hartog was naive ?
Anyway here the words of Hartog and Kuttner concerning Iso A3C BO227 in plastic ( Yes, they are not afraid )
Then Kuttner sold his story to Dr Zweifler better known under the nick name of WOLFY ( collector of Maserati Barchetta).
Wolfy in good faith ? send the car to GPS Classic in Brescia Italy for restoration
You should read Jack Koobs de Hartog and if you google his name, here the result
https://www.google.fr/webhp?sourceid...oobs+de+Hartog

DenisC:

Found this pic in a abandoned cars forum

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenisC
Found this pic in a abandoned cars forum
Bizzarrini 300 now beeing restored by De Sibenthal

benmou:

Year ?

benmou:

https://www.facebook.com/CineCars/vi...PAGES_TIMELINE

benmou:

Wrong body shape and vin ?

benmou:

ex Le Mans BA4 106 discover by ....?

benmou:

Kit car from Lutziger, look BA4106 and this body, it s the same shape as when car BA4106 was in Italy, they made a mould to build this kit car, of course the kit car was not supposed to steal the identity of the ex Sebring Iso A3C who is lost.
Lutziger knew about it but this did not stop it to advertise it as ex Sebring racer...

benmou:

Same people in Ponsaco Italy build this complet kit car body chassis for a dealer in Holland, who was going to race it, car was not supposed to carry BO228 lost chassis number and car was not supposed to appear in a *good* lol book as real car and a customer was not supposed to sue the author Jack Koobs de Hartog of the book for fraud ..
A lots of not supposed

benmou:

A customer found out the truth at ferrarichat.com forum

benmou:

Here chassis construction in Ponsaco of kit car who when arrive in Holland get original with the help of Hartog book., here the facts

benmou:

OK, let s follow the story, Mr Hartog told us that car was 304 renumbered 228, then let s see what Mr Magic Hartog write in his book about 304 ...
Mr Copperfield Hartog write that car 304 was scrapped....
Well, I need your help to understand the way he think,
304 was destroy, then reborn as 228 with a magic lotion ?
I want to buy this magic lotion, where I can find it , as I want to reborn as a 20 years old young man.
MR Hartog should stop drinking the water that is inside the vodka bottle, as it s not water but vodka.

GIOTTO:

When I read the different threads about Bizzarrini, my question is : How many original cars with original VINs are left in the world ? 5, 12, 36, more...? Really ?

benmou:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIOTTO
When I read the different threads about Bizzarrini, my question is : How many original cars with original VINs are left in the world ? 5, 12, 36, more...? Really ?
Ferrari 250 GTO was the same with 3 cars using the same identity,
Really more than 120 cars , most of them, but we have 2 problems in the Bizzarrini community.
The replicas man who can work with the approbation of the club IBOC in USA, and Kuttner is (was ) of course fully implicate in theses scam, then you have somebody who will promote your scam activity and here we have Jack Koobs de Hartog who did it because he was paid or because he dont known the differencce between water and vodka
Luckely, theirs games are over and all scams have been discovered ( I hope so )
Kuttner have sold his business to Carpenter and Hartog is burn.
Again, thank you ferrarichat who really help the customers

benmou:

We should start a thread only for Kuttner/Hartog dirty business
Here in the book of Hartog correct 106 and FAKE 106 as the original car was lost for Kuttner (not for everybody as car was with Mancini, found by Olczyk for Gregor Fiskens and appear in auction before sold by Fiskens to Holland 10 years ago )
We can note that in Olczyk book, none of theses fake appear, but they found their place in the book of Hartog
What is funny from Hartog is that he is not afraid to print that Kuttner told him that he renumbered the car as 106, but dont remember the original number ????
It s difficult to read the book of Hartog without being folded laughing

benmou:

And now the victim was Olczyk himself who 20 years ago did not have the knownledge that he have today, bought a car from Kuttner in good faith and realise after that he was a other victim of Kuttner, he threw away the car and loose money
As you see, theses fakes have always american history from Kuttner
Now, the car is again in Hartog book for promotion and you dont see it in Olczyk book

benmou:

Iso Bo218 photos found on italian website

benmou:

ISO A3C ex james Graser

benmou:

Iso A3C ex James Graser

71Satisfaction:

Oliver certainly was a colorful character.
I met him around 1988-89 when I brokered a derelict Iso Grifo to one of his purchasers at Griffon Motorcars... I wonder if I can dig up the photos of his shop back then. He didn't have much time for me.. and I don't recall exactly what he had, I wasn't interested in A3C's or Bizzarini's back then - but I remember one of the rare Spyder P538's in his showroom... Lamborghini engine and all... at least that's what they said it was.. Oliver had another Iso Grifo that I looked at, but undergoing restoration... I was looking for an Espada...
...fast forward 22 years to 2012 and it was much to my surprise when I bought my Maserati Bora from Ivan Ruiz ... we looked at its documents and found the last time it had been titled was in 1990 - to Griffon Motorcars/Oliver Kuttner..
Cheers,
- Art

vendredi 3 février 2017